AGM reveals 'profitable' Swindon Town

First published in Headlines

SWINDON Town are one of only a handful of ‘profitable’ clubs in the Football League, the Swindon Town Football Company Limited AGM revealed last night.

Chairman Andrew Fitton urged shareholders to view the accounts with consideration and caution, however, as the £415,791 profit figure benefited from a series of write-backs and outstanding legal fees which hid an overall operating loss of £1.2million.

That loss is somewhat better than the £3.5million recorded by the Company two years ago, but Fitton said he believes the current hierarchy can still do better to improve finances at the County Ground.

“We are probably the only profitable club in League One but I do have to caution you about the numbers because I’m afraid accounts can sometimes be confusing,” he said.

“The turnover was up £2million on the year before, which is an increase of about 55 per cent. We got good revenues from play-offs and through general success of last year.

“At the operating level, which is a really important level to look at in terms of a club’s profitability, we are still losing money and still losing too much money, but we’re in a lot better shape than we were a couple of years ago.

“It’s a whole lot better, but it’s not enough and we have some challenges ahead.

“We benefited hugely from some write-backs which relate to the cleaning up we’ve been doing on the balance sheet.

“The CVA is finally over, we were able to take all the creditors from that off the balance sheet.

“Against that we had some legal issues we needed to provide for, but all in all those made the figures look an awful lot better than they actually were.

“Still, it is nice to be able to show a profit, even if it’s not a real profit.

“We could do better but good progress has been made.”

Figures showed Town made a profit on transfers of in excess of £983,000 in the year 2009/2010, mostly down to the income received from Simon Cox’s move to West Bromich Albion and Anthony McNamee’s switch to Norwich City.

The chairman said, although Swindon Town has benefited significantly from the Cox transfer, Reading enjoyed a sizeable chunk of the fee - as they were entitled to 40 per cent due to a sell-on clause.

“It is the biggest profit, I think, the club’s ever made on a transfer year,” said Fitton.

Chief executive Nick Watkins spoke about plans to redevelop the County Ground - a four-phase proposal that would increase the stadium’s capacity to 19,000, with room for further expansion to 25,000 should needs be.

Watkins highlighted how the Town End would be the initial phase, doubling the stand’s capacity from 2,000 to 4,000.

The Don Rogers Stand has been earmarked as phase two. Capacity will not be increased, although corporate boxes are planned to be integrated within the structure. Watkins said these blueprints were not yet completed.

The Stratton Bank would be roofed and self-contained for away fans, allowing home supporters the remaining three stands for themselves.

The chief exec said there would be little room for expansion behind the Stratton Bank due to the residential nature of Shrivenham Road behind the stand.

The Arkell’s Stand, under current plans, will have its facilities revamped.

Watkins said the club were negotiating with the council to buy the freehold to the land on which the County Ground stands.

The club said the council were being extremely cooperative and helpful in discussions to this point.

Fitton insisted Swindon Town continued to draw attendances well against the dipping trend of the Football League.

“We are trying to grow 10 per cent per annum, and we’re just below 9,000, and the important thing about that is that the trend in League One is actually down and crowds are down quite significantly,” he said.

“Against that we’ve got rising crowds which suggests we’re going against trend by about 25 per cent, which is a great result.”

Fitton said Town’s attendance average was around 20 per cent higher than the League One equivalent, whilst he suggested the club draws the fifth biggest crowds in the division and the 21st largest in the Football League.

“All those point towards the fact that we’re beginning to grow the crowd back, but we have targets of 11,000 in mind even at League One level in order to make this club truly successful,” he said.

“We think 19,000 is the right number for the Championship, and we’ve spent a lot of time on this.

“The average crowd in the Championship is between 15,000 and 17,000 but we reckon our gates in the Championship would be a minimum of 14,000 and we would average 15,000 across the year.

“We would almost certainly build in some potential to increase capacity - so to take it from 19,000 to 25,000.

“You don’t build that at the outset otherwise you end up with a lot of empty seats.”

Mention was also made that a technology park could be tagged on to the back of the Arkell’s Stand during the refurbishment, although details were somewhat hazy.

“As part of the development we are considering developing part of the site as a technology park,” said Fitton.

“Andrew Black is a very well known technology entrepreneur, he’s very successful, and he’s starting to look into a number of opportunities to invest in technology parks across the UK.

“He thinks it’s a potential site to do that on, and everybody seems very enthusiastic about it.”

Directors Jeremy Wray and Nick Watkins were re-elected to the board, both unanimously, before the accounts were also voted in without opposition.

The chairman then opened the floor to questions from shareholders which focused around the County Ground redevelopment and the current state of affairs on the pitch.

Manager Danny Wilson was present to discuss playing matters and fielded questions regarding tactics and incoming players.

Wilson rejected the notion his side were resorting to long ball tactics, emphasising his belief the Robins are one of the best footballing sides in the division.

The manager went on to back this up by saying many opposing clubs have paid tribute to the way Town play their football, although he accepted results have not been good enough this season.

The chairman answered a question regarding the departure of Billy Paynter to Leeds United in the summer.

Fitton revealed Town had offered the striker a 'lucrative' contract in January of last year, but Paynter made the independent decision to move on.

The Sean Morrison contract saga was also explained, with Fitton confirming to the shareholders that the defender would not have stayed at the County Ground when his previous deal expired, unless Town included a release clause within the new agreement.

Fitton said: "The clause covered both a specific time and fee. If we had got to February 1 we would have been clear."

The board answered a query relating to why transfer fees, in the main, were kept officially undisclosed.

The chairman said this has become the norm within football now, with clauses written into the majority of contracts to keep figures quiet.

A suggestion was made that the club would be better off using the money set aside for ground redevelopment for player transfers.

Watkins responded by saying the five-year plan for Championship football was tied in with the redevelopment blueprint. He hoped the two could be married together for the club to progress.

Comments (31)

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10:52am Thu 20 Jan 11

umpcah says...

"Manager Danny Wilson was present to discuss playing matters and fielded questions regarding tactics and incoming players" Well come on Adver, or someone who attended the AGM , please tell us what was said !
"Manager Danny Wilson was present to discuss playing matters and fielded questions regarding tactics and incoming players" Well come on Adver, or someone who attended the AGM , please tell us what was said ! umpcah
  • Score: 0

11:01am Thu 20 Jan 11

stfclondon says...

It all sounds very positive. What a refreshing change from just a few short years ago.
I would also like to hear what was said on the playing side. Hopefully the Adver will publish a further article about this.
Also looking forward to seeing some plans for the ground redevelopment. As someone said before, Reading have only become a 'big' club (pfft) since moving into their new ground. 19,000 capacity with the possibility of another 6,000 seems sensible enough to me. To paraphrase Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams: build it and they will come.
It all sounds very positive. What a refreshing change from just a few short years ago. I would also like to hear what was said on the playing side. Hopefully the Adver will publish a further article about this. Also looking forward to seeing some plans for the ground redevelopment. As someone said before, Reading have only become a 'big' club (pfft) since moving into their new ground. 19,000 capacity with the possibility of another 6,000 seems sensible enough to me. To paraphrase Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams: build it and they will come. stfclondon
  • Score: 0

11:12am Thu 20 Jan 11

Davidsyrett says...

Good to get some positive news after what has been a woeful week. Think the ground developement to 19000 is very sensible in this climate although would be interested to now how they would sqeeze in another 6K if further developement was required. Would have also liked to have heard how the project is going to be financed?
One rather optimistic forecast though is how to reduce spending and try to attract 11000 average gate in this division. Previous history would suggest that unless big signing's are made and the team starts becoming more successfull on the pitch the gates are more likely to start falling. balancing the books and having a successful team do not usually go hand in hand.
Good to get some positive news after what has been a woeful week. Think the ground developement to 19000 is very sensible in this climate although would be interested to now how they would sqeeze in another 6K if further developement was required. Would have also liked to have heard how the project is going to be financed? One rather optimistic forecast though is how to reduce spending and try to attract 11000 average gate in this division. Previous history would suggest that unless big signing's are made and the team starts becoming more successfull on the pitch the gates are more likely to start falling. balancing the books and having a successful team do not usually go hand in hand. Davidsyrett
  • Score: 0

11:21am Thu 20 Jan 11

London Red says...

umpcah - my thoughts exactly!
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surely somwone must have documented what was said about the on filed affairs and players coming and goings!
umpcah - my thoughts exactly! . surely somwone must have documented what was said about the on filed affairs and players coming and goings! London Red
  • Score: 0

11:26am Thu 20 Jan 11

umpcah says...

London Red wrote:
umpcah - my thoughts exactly! . surely somwone must have documented what was said about the on filed affairs and players coming and goings!
There now seems to be a BIT of info added on to the article. No info on Charlie,etc !
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: umpcah - my thoughts exactly! . surely somwone must have documented what was said about the on filed affairs and players coming and goings![/p][/quote]There now seems to be a BIT of info added on to the article. No info on Charlie,etc ! umpcah
  • Score: 0

11:45am Thu 20 Jan 11

Wonder Strike says...

Good news. Just remember the bad old days under previous regime. In Fitton we trust!

Attendances will keep going up if they keep the season ticket prices low. I'd also hope that if and when we did get this new ground they still keep prices low to get the punters in.

Long term the new ground is needed, how can people not see that. We will always be an average 3rd tier side otherwise.
Good news. Just remember the bad old days under previous regime. In Fitton we trust! Attendances will keep going up if they keep the season ticket prices low. I'd also hope that if and when we did get this new ground they still keep prices low to get the punters in. Long term the new ground is needed, how can people not see that. We will always be an average 3rd tier side otherwise. Wonder Strike
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Even Angrier Monkey says...

Agree wonder strike. The ground redevelopment is absoutley crucial. It should allow the club to stand on its own 2 feet financially (something it has pretty much NEVER done) and offer a strong base to build from. Further down the line it might even help attract players.

I know the team is in trouble, but football fans are very short termist and fickle in their attitude. I dont want the club to spend money earmarked for the stadium project on players NOW.

I'm glad that our owners are not like that at all, as there are plenty out there who are, which almost always leads to financial meltdown sooner or later. As we have seen 1st hand
Agree wonder strike. The ground redevelopment is absoutley crucial. It should allow the club to stand on its own 2 feet financially (something it has pretty much NEVER done) and offer a strong base to build from. Further down the line it might even help attract players. I know the team is in trouble, but football fans are very short termist and fickle in their attitude. I dont want the club to spend money earmarked for the stadium project on players NOW. I'm glad that our owners are not like that at all, as there are plenty out there who are, which almost always leads to financial meltdown sooner or later. As we have seen 1st hand Even Angrier Monkey
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Thu 20 Jan 11

billbst says...

Good to read. Freehold must be an important issue. What ground can be used to develop a technology park? I think the report highlights just how concerned the board must be about staying in L1 and having a much better second half to the season. Therefore I expect to see at least two signings of an experienced CB and Striker. It makes business sense.
Good to read. Freehold must be an important issue. What ground can be used to develop a technology park? I think the report highlights just how concerned the board must be about staying in L1 and having a much better second half to the season. Therefore I expect to see at least two signings of an experienced CB and Striker. It makes business sense. billbst
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Thu 20 Jan 11

townie63 says...

Good work by AF and Co but to increase the crowds you need give them something worth watching more often than the occasional "great performance"
If I performed my job with the same inconsistency as Town I probably wouldn't have a job for long. I'll still get a season ticket next season and keep my fingers crossed, after 45+ years I can't do anything else.
Good work by AF and Co but to increase the crowds you need give them something worth watching more often than the occasional "great performance" If I performed my job with the same inconsistency as Town I probably wouldn't have a job for long. I'll still get a season ticket next season and keep my fingers crossed, after 45+ years I can't do anything else. townie63
  • Score: 0

12:42pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Sparticus says...

I wasn't able to get there last night but did anyone who did attend think to ask if the '5-year plan' is the old 5-year plan or a new 5-year plan? I think we should be told ! :)
I wasn't able to get there last night but did anyone who did attend think to ask if the '5-year plan' is the old 5-year plan or a new 5-year plan? I think we should be told ! :) Sparticus
  • Score: 0

12:48pm Thu 20 Jan 11

MITTED says...

This board is so professional, we are very lucky to have such owners. Now we wait for the key-board warriors to knit-pick every single point and read into something that doesn't exist!

I say it publicly again, thank you Mr Fitton and your fellow owners/board members, you are doing a great job in what is traditionally difficult circumstances.
This board is so professional, we are very lucky to have such owners. Now we wait for the key-board warriors to knit-pick every single point and read into something that doesn't exist! I say it publicly again, thank you Mr Fitton and your fellow owners/board members, you are doing a great job in what is traditionally difficult circumstances. MITTED
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Thu 20 Jan 11

avo says...

One point did make me wonder, and that was when the article mentioned a possible technology park behind the arkells?
*
If memory serves me correct, any use of the land behind the arkells met with massive oppostion last time around due to the cricket pitch, the pavillion especially and also the athletics area.
*
Interesting times ahead i'll bet, this is all great news for town fans and there should be no reason for any doom to surface as a result of this article should there?
One point did make me wonder, and that was when the article mentioned a possible technology park behind the arkells? * If memory serves me correct, any use of the land behind the arkells met with massive oppostion last time around due to the cricket pitch, the pavillion especially and also the athletics area. * Interesting times ahead i'll bet, this is all great news for town fans and there should be no reason for any doom to surface as a result of this article should there? avo
  • Score: 0

1:13pm Thu 20 Jan 11

red ed says...

Where's the discussion of projected attendances in League Two?

Re managers praising DW on his side's style of play - not surprising when they've bagged 3 points!

While all the topics discussed here are interesting it does make you worry eyes could be taken off the playing side and we sleep walk into trouble.
Where's the discussion of projected attendances in League Two? Re managers praising DW on his side's style of play - not surprising when they've bagged 3 points! While all the topics discussed here are interesting it does make you worry eyes could be taken off the playing side and we sleep walk into trouble. red ed
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Thu 20 Jan 11

RamsburyRed says...

Best article on here for ages, but just when you need some meat the Adver skates over it all. I'd love some more detail on the finances, and it is sobering to note that we made an operating loss of £1.2m in spite of a 55 per cent increase in turnover. Just goes to show that headlines are misleading, because we are not actually profitable at all! It also brings home to the fans why we are a 'selling' club; on the basis of the figures given, we need to net £2m in transfer fees to break even. This gives an indication of how tricky football club finances are.
*
And as posted above, would have been good to hear more of Danny's answers, although I am guessing that he spoke in quite general terms about tactics players etc, rather than in great depth.
Best article on here for ages, but just when you need some meat the Adver skates over it all. I'd love some more detail on the finances, and it is sobering to note that we made an operating loss of £1.2m in spite of a 55 per cent increase in turnover. Just goes to show that headlines are misleading, because we are not actually profitable at all! It also brings home to the fans why we are a 'selling' club; on the basis of the figures given, we need to net £2m in transfer fees to break even. This gives an indication of how tricky football club finances are. * And as posted above, would have been good to hear more of Danny's answers, although I am guessing that he spoke in quite general terms about tactics players etc, rather than in great depth. RamsburyRed
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Northern Red says...

I understand why they are going after the Freehold, but I strangely hope they don't get it.
There is a large list of clubs who have acquired the Freehold from Council, but almost still own the ground that it was for.
One thing Swindon Borough Council will not do, is sell to Asda or other supermarket. Fitton or future owners could. Look at the Brighton saga, which is nearly over after 15 years?
I understand why they are going after the Freehold, but I strangely hope they don't get it. There is a large list of clubs who have acquired the Freehold from Council, but almost still own the ground that it was for. One thing Swindon Borough Council will not do, is sell to Asda or other supermarket. Fitton or future owners could. Look at the Brighton saga, which is nearly over after 15 years? Northern Red
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Redhouse Red says...

Good stuff. Time will tell on how successful they are.
Good stuff. Time will tell on how successful they are. Redhouse Red
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Thu 20 Jan 11

London Red says...

Sparticus - I think this is still the original 5 year plan. AF and Co took over in January 2008 so the plan would not have started until the 2008/09 season.
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We are now only in the 2010/11 which is year 3 - so still have 2 years to get up within that time scale.
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Last year and this year show how you can bounce from one extreme to the other - so we could easily put a squad together to challenge in that time frame!
.
Especially as we have a nucleas here - they just need tweaking.
.
Red Ed - this is an article about the AGM which primarily is to discuss the financial side of the business - thus the conversation focussed around, Operating Profit, Net Profit, Stadium Developents and additional Revenue streams
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There is a Q&A session with DW and the Players on the 27th - by which time Transfer dealings in and out should be nearly complete!
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That is the forum to really discuss on field matters - especially if we have some new faces to add to the equation.
.
Northern - the council can always add a clause in the contract that the land can only be used for sports and recreation (which there is something like that already in place) - that way the club will be legally bound never to sell it to Asda or whoever.
.
Also the Council could always insert a first option on any sale - therefore, they could always reclaim it if it went up for sale.
Sparticus - I think this is still the original 5 year plan. AF and Co took over in January 2008 so the plan would not have started until the 2008/09 season. . We are now only in the 2010/11 which is year 3 - so still have 2 years to get up within that time scale. . Last year and this year show how you can bounce from one extreme to the other - so we could easily put a squad together to challenge in that time frame! . Especially as we have a nucleas here - they just need tweaking. . Red Ed - this is an article about the AGM which primarily is to discuss the financial side of the business - thus the conversation focussed around, Operating Profit, Net Profit, Stadium Developents and additional Revenue streams . There is a Q&A session with DW and the Players on the 27th - by which time Transfer dealings in and out should be nearly complete! . That is the forum to really discuss on field matters - especially if we have some new faces to add to the equation. . Northern - the council can always add a clause in the contract that the land can only be used for sports and recreation (which there is something like that already in place) - that way the club will be legally bound never to sell it to Asda or whoever. . Also the Council could always insert a first option on any sale - therefore, they could always reclaim it if it went up for sale. London Red
  • Score: 0

4:21pm Thu 20 Jan 11

red ed says...

LR - I understand what you say about the topic of the article. But let's be clear, any sensible and objective analysis of a business at an AGM involves discussion of the key risks facing that business.

Right now the key risk facing this club is having to ply it's trade at a lower level and the impact that will have on revenue among the innumerate other consequences of relegation.

So what are the board doing to mitigate this risk?
LR - I understand what you say about the topic of the article. But let's be clear, any sensible and objective analysis of a business at an AGM involves discussion of the key risks facing that business. Right now the key risk facing this club is having to ply it's trade at a lower level and the impact that will have on revenue among the innumerate other consequences of relegation. So what are the board doing to mitigate this risk? red ed
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Thu 20 Jan 11

grim for manager says...

great report from last year, but loss of potential sponsers,lower gates next season,less live games in div2, will be a massive loss,just because you would not replace our manager.goes to show mr fitton dont read these boards,
great report from last year, but loss of potential sponsers,lower gates next season,less live games in div2, will be a massive loss,just because you would not replace our manager.goes to show mr fitton dont read these boards, grim for manager
  • Score: 0

4:44pm Thu 20 Jan 11

London Red says...

The board don't think we will go down -but to mitigate that potential risk they are working on refreshing the playing squad with players coming in and out.
.
The perm window is open for 10 more days and the loan window is open until late March - so they have time to work on their prime targets
.
Would you rather we signed anybody and then miss out on Ward if he becomes available as the budget has been spent or wait a few days to get Ward for example
.
Only 157 transfers have taken place in January (BBC Transfer list - I may have miss counted but it is there or there abouts) - this includes loan to perm ala Ritchie and lots of non league transfers as well!
.
So All 92 League Clubs plus 24 Conference Clubs, 21 Conference North and 22 South means 159 teams so equates to under 1 transfer per club - hardly a lot of activity!
.
Sky Sports News only have a transfer deadline day special for a reason as lots are transfer go through near the end of the window!
.
Its a chain X must move to allow Y to be available and so on!
.
The cogs are now starting to turn so we will see more an more happen throughout the leagues over the next week.
.
Remember we signed 5 on deadline day once!
The board don't think we will go down -but to mitigate that potential risk they are working on refreshing the playing squad with players coming in and out. . The perm window is open for 10 more days and the loan window is open until late March - so they have time to work on their prime targets . Would you rather we signed anybody and then miss out on Ward if he becomes available as the budget has been spent or wait a few days to get Ward for example . Only 157 transfers have taken place in January (BBC Transfer list - I may have miss counted but it is there or there abouts) - this includes loan to perm ala Ritchie and lots of non league transfers as well! . So All 92 League Clubs plus 24 Conference Clubs, 21 Conference North and 22 South means 159 teams so equates to under 1 transfer per club - hardly a lot of activity! . Sky Sports News only have a transfer deadline day special for a reason as lots are transfer go through near the end of the window! . Its a chain X must move to allow Y to be available and so on! . The cogs are now starting to turn so we will see more an more happen throughout the leagues over the next week. . Remember we signed 5 on deadline day once! London Red
  • Score: 0

4:51pm Thu 20 Jan 11

grim for manager says...

Manager Danny Wilson was present to discuss playing matters and fielded questions regarding tactics(NONE) and incoming players.

Wilson rejected the notion his side were resorting to long ball tactics,(TRUE) emphasising his belief the Robins are one of the best footballing sides in the division. (ABSOLUTE GARBAGE)

The manager went on to back this up by saying many opposing clubs have paid tribute to the way Town play (AND THANKED THEM FOR THE 3 POINTS) their football, although he accepted results have not been good enough this season. (HOOOOORAY SPOT-ON DANNY BOY)................
...
if thats wot he said at the a.g.m it just goes to show this man is decades away from reality WILSON OUT NOW.
i wonder if a/f mentioned the players he signed who dont want to wear our proud shirt, i would not give this man no money to waste would you?
Manager Danny Wilson was present to discuss playing matters and fielded questions regarding tactics(NONE) and incoming players. Wilson rejected the notion his side were resorting to long ball tactics,(TRUE) emphasising his belief the Robins are one of the best footballing sides in the division. (ABSOLUTE GARBAGE) The manager went on to back this up by saying many opposing clubs have paid tribute to the way Town play (AND THANKED THEM FOR THE 3 POINTS) their football, although he accepted results have not been good enough this season. (HOOOOORAY SPOT-ON DANNY BOY)................ ... if thats wot he said at the a.g.m it just goes to show this man is decades away from reality WILSON OUT NOW. i wonder if a/f mentioned the players he signed who dont want to wear our proud shirt, i would not give this man no money to waste would you? grim for manager
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Observer 2 says...

Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan.

That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard?

At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion.

As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship.

I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business.

The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards.
Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan. That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard? At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion. As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship. I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business. The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards. Observer 2
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Jock Strop says...

London Red wrote:
The board don't think we will go down -but to mitigate that potential risk they are working on refreshing the playing squad with players coming in and out. . The perm window is open for 10 more days and the loan window is open until late March - so they have time to work on their prime targets . Would you rather we signed anybody and then miss out on Ward if he becomes available as the budget has been spent or wait a few days to get Ward for example . Only 157 transfers have taken place in January (BBC Transfer list - I may have miss counted but it is there or there abouts) - this includes loan to perm ala Ritchie and lots of non league transfers as well! . So All 92 League Clubs plus 24 Conference Clubs, 21 Conference North and 22 South means 159 teams so equates to under 1 transfer per club - hardly a lot of activity! . Sky Sports News only have a transfer deadline day special for a reason as lots are transfer go through near the end of the window! . Its a chain X must move to allow Y to be available and so on! . The cogs are now starting to turn so we will see more an more happen throughout the leagues over the next week. . Remember we signed 5 on deadline day once!
I't's boring stats man again YAWN!!!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]London Red[/bold] wrote: The board don't think we will go down -but to mitigate that potential risk they are working on refreshing the playing squad with players coming in and out. . The perm window is open for 10 more days and the loan window is open until late March - so they have time to work on their prime targets . Would you rather we signed anybody and then miss out on Ward if he becomes available as the budget has been spent or wait a few days to get Ward for example . Only 157 transfers have taken place in January (BBC Transfer list - I may have miss counted but it is there or there abouts) - this includes loan to perm ala Ritchie and lots of non league transfers as well! . So All 92 League Clubs plus 24 Conference Clubs, 21 Conference North and 22 South means 159 teams so equates to under 1 transfer per club - hardly a lot of activity! . Sky Sports News only have a transfer deadline day special for a reason as lots are transfer go through near the end of the window! . Its a chain X must move to allow Y to be available and so on! . The cogs are now starting to turn so we will see more an more happen throughout the leagues over the next week. . Remember we signed 5 on deadline day once![/p][/quote]I't's boring stats man again YAWN!!!!!!!!!! Jock Strop
  • Score: 0

8:01pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Observer 2 says...

Wizard .... are you about ???

We were having a debate yesterday on your claim that "players" were on £5000 per week. ie. £250000 per annum

Now the accounts are published they reveal this.

Wages and salaries cost £3,859,507

Playing /Coaching 75
Full Time 27
Matchday 196

An educated guess would out the cost of employees fulltime/matchday at £800000-1.2m.

Call it £800000 and that would leave £3m for players/ coaching.

Divide that equally by 75 and that comes to £40000 per annum, or £750 per week

Now I'm not daft enough to suggest everyone is paid the same but if 5 players were on £5000 per week that would take the average down to £28000 for the rest.

I think your source , or you, have inflated the true position. OK I'm guessing because as you say these sort of things are kept very private and don't think it is worth debating further but I would rather go on facts rather than "sources".

I was rather amused at the use of the word incontinent on page 24, didn't expect to see that. Perhaps I just don't understand the context, but did wonder if a "G" was missing.............
.

..... it said....Including levies, the incontinent net income of these transactions amounted to approximately £62,300...... perhaps it did after all mean something was leaking unexpectedly Lol !
Wizard .... are you about ??? We were having a debate yesterday on your claim that "players" were on £5000 per week. ie. £250000 per annum Now the accounts are published they reveal this. Wages and salaries cost £3,859,507 Playing /Coaching 75 Full Time 27 Matchday 196 An educated guess would out the cost of employees fulltime/matchday at £800000-1.2m. Call it £800000 and that would leave £3m for players/ coaching. Divide that equally by 75 and that comes to £40000 per annum, or £750 per week Now I'm not daft enough to suggest everyone is paid the same but if 5 players were on £5000 per week that would take the average down to £28000 for the rest. I think your source , or you, have inflated the true position. OK I'm guessing because as you say these sort of things are kept very private and don't think it is worth debating further but I would rather go on facts rather than "sources". I was rather amused at the use of the word incontinent on page 24, didn't expect to see that. Perhaps I just don't understand the context, but did wonder if a "G" was missing............. . ..... it said....Including levies, the incontinent net income of these transactions amounted to approximately £62,300...... perhaps it did after all mean something was leaking unexpectedly Lol ! Observer 2
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Paul Skinnbakk says...

Observer 2 wrote:
Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan. That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard? At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion. As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship. I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business. The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards.
My word that is a good post.
Over the last 3 or 4 years since our current owners took over the reigns, I've found myself saying the same things to people.
When we're going through a rough old trot I've found myself feeling a lot calmer these days, whilst others around me (mainly on this site, it has to be said) are sobbing & wailing.
I'm thankful that I seem to have mastered the trick of enjoying & making the most of the good times, but not letting the bad times get to me. I think it is also referred to as - "having a life".
People can have all the tantrums they want. Me? I will just continue to REVEL in the fact that we've got such a healthy club to support, and I'll NEVER forget that, on the way home from a game at Brentford a few years ago, the staff were resigned to the fact that STFC was no more. They'd given up. That was it. Kaput.
Like Observer says, if we miss out on a player, or if we lose a few games, meh....
[quote][p][bold]Observer 2[/bold] wrote: Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan. That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard? At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion. As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship. I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business. The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards.[/p][/quote]My word that is a good post. Over the last 3 or 4 years since our current owners took over the reigns, I've found myself saying the same things to people. When we're going through a rough old trot I've found myself feeling a lot calmer these days, whilst others around me (mainly on this site, it has to be said) are sobbing & wailing. I'm thankful that I seem to have mastered the trick of enjoying & making the most of the good times, but not letting the bad times get to me. I think it is also referred to as - "having a life". People can have all the tantrums they want. Me? I will just continue to REVEL in the fact that we've got such a healthy club to support, and I'll NEVER forget that, on the way home from a game at Brentford a few years ago, the staff were resigned to the fact that STFC was no more. They'd given up. That was it. Kaput. Like Observer says, if we miss out on a player, or if we lose a few games, meh.... Paul Skinnbakk
  • Score: 0

8:57pm Thu 20 Jan 11

Oi Den! says...

PS, you are certainly to be commended for keeping yourself on such an even keel. Of course you're right. In the greater scheme of things, one season (and even football itself) is not the be all and end all. But - and you knew there was going to be a "but" didn't you?! - this season has been depressingly bad and I think it's only to be expected that people will want to know why it has gone so badly wrong. And now I'm going to get off this bl00dy keyboard and get back to my life and wife!
PS, you are certainly to be commended for keeping yourself on such an even keel. Of course you're right. In the greater scheme of things, one season (and even football itself) is not the be all and end all. But - and you knew there was going to be a "but" didn't you?! - this season has been depressingly bad and I think it's only to be expected that people will want to know why it has gone so badly wrong. And now I'm going to get off this bl00dy keyboard and get back to my life and wife! Oi Den!
  • Score: 0

9:45pm Thu 20 Jan 11

London Red says...

Observer we obviously don't have 75 players and coached at the club!
.
That is an average and everytime we have a loan come and go it adds to that number.
.
AF said we had 27 on the books. So £3m between them would be £2k a week average which what I expected for us.
.
Obviously the likes of Bodin are on a lot less so the top earners could be on £5k
.
I heard O'Brien was on £4k!
Observer we obviously don't have 75 players and coached at the club! . That is an average and everytime we have a loan come and go it adds to that number. . AF said we had 27 on the books. So £3m between them would be £2k a week average which what I expected for us. . Obviously the likes of Bodin are on a lot less so the top earners could be on £5k . I heard O'Brien was on £4k! London Red
  • Score: 0

10:19pm Thu 20 Jan 11

grim for manager says...

Observer 2 wrote:
Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan. That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard? At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion. As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship. I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business. The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards.
relegated? dont talk so wet you twaat,no one wants us to go down,but we can all see apart from you couple of muppets,that this is a big big realilty,still i suppose you are one of the none paying so called fans who gets complimentary tickets every week,?as for your comments on the 2 defeats,ask mr fitton i bet he would say i wish we won against brighton/orient/mk dons,plymouth/dagenh
am/peterbourgh twice/charlton/brent
ford/noots county/crawley/bourn
emoth/oldham/yeovil, and him to say we are getting 12,000 gates.still lose to rovers saturday and we can still make the play-offs CANT WE?dont fuucking moan when austin goes and we dont bring no one in then,perhaps you would like us to go in the blue square after if we do we will still have a club.why do clubs sack their managers?after all the directors could say umm lets go down at least we got a club....bolloxx you must be a women who knows nothing about the game?and you thought england would win the world cup,
[quote][p][bold]Observer 2[/bold] wrote: Grim : I rather suspect you would prefer for the Town to be relegated, just so you can say "I told you so" rather than see them stay up. A rather strange perspective for a Town fan. That's why the board is unlikely to take one jot of notice to all of your inane rantings - haven't you worked that out yet and save yourself hours sat at a keyboard? At the end of the day the professional approach off the field that we are lucky to have is far more important than a single result, a seasons results, or a relegation or a promotion. As long as the management maintain control over the financial aspects of the club, we have a future, whether that is in a league below, Division 1 or the Championship. I would much prefer the club to remain solvent and if that results in us missing a signing or three, or selling a player or two to balance the books then that is far more preferable than going out of business. The present board have worked wonders to deal with the many difficult situations to keep our dreams alive that our club has a future. That will stay further in my mind rather than consecutive defeats at Oldham and Yeovil or indifferent results through the season, however frustrating that may feel in the moments afterwards.[/p][/quote]relegated? dont talk so wet you twaat,no one wants us to go down,but we can all see apart from you couple of muppets,that this is a big big realilty,still i suppose you are one of the none paying so called fans who gets complimentary tickets every week,?as for your comments on the 2 defeats,ask mr fitton i bet he would say i wish we won against brighton/orient/mk dons,plymouth/dagenh am/peterbourgh twice/charlton/brent ford/noots county/crawley/bourn emoth/oldham/yeovil, and him to say we are getting 12,000 gates.still lose to rovers saturday and we can still make the play-offs CANT WE?dont fuucking moan when austin goes and we dont bring no one in then,perhaps you would like us to go in the blue square after if we do we will still have a club.why do clubs sack their managers?after all the directors could say umm lets go down at least we got a club....bolloxx you must be a women who knows nothing about the game?and you thought england would win the world cup, grim for manager
  • Score: 0

10:44pm Thu 20 Jan 11

mancrobin says...

Good article for a change. Some facts, some reality, some positive news and a continuing challenge to the fans - if you want a big club, you need to start turning up in bigger numbers.

Well done Mr Fitton, keep up the good work. I'm certainly with you mate!
Good article for a change. Some facts, some reality, some positive news and a continuing challenge to the fans - if you want a big club, you need to start turning up in bigger numbers. Well done Mr Fitton, keep up the good work. I'm certainly with you mate! mancrobin
  • Score: 0

12:14am Fri 21 Jan 11

Observer 2 says...

London Red.... I appreciate first team squad is around 30 ish, but don't forget those at the club that are players but not in that squad ..i.e. youth team etc, first second year scholars, they would count no doubt in the 75 and paid, but not earning a fortune I grant you.

Depends also who are termed "coaches" no doubt those would work down right to the youngest age group.

I just think all these "comments from sources" about so and so is on **** and can be misleading, because there is no factual backup.

We can all read on here how things get made up and are the become "fact" through word of mouth. At the end of the day I'm not worried how much individual players actually get, it's down to the management to keep that within the means of the club structures, which they seem to be doing unlike many clubs.

PS My take on "average" would be the average number employed at any time throughout the year - that's the way other companies calculate and report it.
London Red.... I appreciate first team squad is around 30 ish, but don't forget those at the club that are players but not in that squad ..i.e. youth team etc, first second year scholars, they would count no doubt in the 75 and paid, but not earning a fortune I grant you. Depends also who are termed "coaches" no doubt those would work down right to the youngest age group. I just think all these "comments from sources" about so and so is on **** and can be misleading, because there is no factual backup. We can all read on here how things get made up and are the become "fact" through word of mouth. At the end of the day I'm not worried how much individual players actually get, it's down to the management to keep that within the means of the club structures, which they seem to be doing unlike many clubs. PS My take on "average" would be the average number employed at any time throughout the year - that's the way other companies calculate and report it. Observer 2
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Fri 21 Jan 11

Paul Skinnbakk says...

Oi Den! wrote:
PS, you are certainly to be commended for keeping yourself on such an even keel. Of course you're right. In the greater scheme of things, one season (and even football itself) is not the be all and end all. But - and you knew there was going to be a "but" didn't you?! - this season has been depressingly bad and I think it's only to be expected that people will want to know why it has gone so badly wrong. And now I'm going to get off this bl00dy keyboard and get back to my life and wife!
Well of course we're all questioning it mate, but the difference is that some people seem to spend an unhealthy amount of their lives dwelling on it all.
I'm as passionate as anyone, and have been for many years, but surely there comes a point where enough is enough?
The overall picture for STFC is very healthy, and when all is said & done, that's all that really matters.
It's the same as people obsessing over political matters all the time, they're all getting themselves so wound up, yet there's nothing they can do about it.
I guess I just want to enjoy my life as much as possible - we ain't here very long after all, in the grand scheme of things.
[quote][p][bold]Oi Den![/bold] wrote: PS, you are certainly to be commended for keeping yourself on such an even keel. Of course you're right. In the greater scheme of things, one season (and even football itself) is not the be all and end all. But - and you knew there was going to be a "but" didn't you?! - this season has been depressingly bad and I think it's only to be expected that people will want to know why it has gone so badly wrong. And now I'm going to get off this bl00dy keyboard and get back to my life and wife![/p][/quote]Well of course we're all questioning it mate, but the difference is that some people seem to spend an unhealthy amount of their lives dwelling on it all. I'm as passionate as anyone, and have been for many years, but surely there comes a point where enough is enough? The overall picture for STFC is very healthy, and when all is said & done, that's all that really matters. It's the same as people obsessing over political matters all the time, they're all getting themselves so wound up, yet there's nothing they can do about it. I guess I just want to enjoy my life as much as possible - we ain't here very long after all, in the grand scheme of things. Paul Skinnbakk
  • Score: 0

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